Cliff Shackelford:
Good evening. This is Bird Calls from the Noel Foundation studios here at Red River Radio, and we're glad you're joining us. Tonight's program is made possible in part by the Community Foundation of North Louisiana and Willis Knighton Health. We invite you to call in with your questions about our feathered friends and the avian world at 800-552-8502.
I'm Cliff Shackelford the host of Bird Calls since 2013, operating the board this evening who you'll hear speak is Alaina Atnip. Soon I'll introduce our guest and we'll be ready to take your calls and discuss birds.
Let's hear from you by calling us at 800-552-8502. Again, that number is 800-552-8502.
We like to break the ice with a profile species. We jump right into right now, we're going to profile a little warbler called the Northern Perula. And its song we're going to hear in just a second, is a buzzy ascending trill described by some as if you're taking your thumb and running it up a comb. So let's listen to a parula here.
Ascending. Here, how it goes up… Deeper to higher? Listen. The northern Perula. Let's listen. Here he comes again.
A kind of fuzzy ascending trill described by some as if you're taking your thumb and running it up a cone.
There it is. Okay, so Perula, should it be… how should we pronounce it?
Perula or Perula. Over the years, I've heard it both ways, and I know what people are talking about, and the proper pronunciation, I think, is really up to you. So, either or either is correct. Get it? Haha? The parula belongs to the family of New World Warblers. There's one other Perula that looks similar called the tropical Perula which has a tremendous range from South Texas south to Argentina.
The northern Perula is multicolored with bluish-gray above and a greenish backpack. Has a yellow throat and breast, and a white belly. In the males, between the yellow throat and the breast is a unique black and rusty band. The female looks similar to the male, but her colors are washed out and dull, especially. No breast band showing on her. Both sexes have a broken white eye ring and white wing bars.
The Perula is a tiny songbird that prefers creek or river bottom habitat or deciduous forests near water. Typically, where Spanish moss is prevalent, these birds build their nests hidden inside a clump of Spanish moss that's dangling down from tree branches.
Like other warblers, they forage primarily for insects and insect larvae up in the tree canopy. They're good neighbors to oaks and other hardwoods where they help keep the numbers of leaf-eating insects in check. The Perula's range includes the entire eastern half of the U.S, plus southeastern parts of Canada.
This species is migratory, wintering in northern Central America and the Caribbean. Most return to our listening area in early March and typically stay all summer long and into September before heading south for the colder months.
To see a fantastic photo of a northern Perula singing, snapped by James Childress, please visit the Bird Calls page at redriverRadio.org.
So I kind of raced past Alaina, and I'm glad you're here, and we should tell people… well, you should tell people why you missed the last 5 or 6 episodes.
Alaina Atnip:
Well, I had a class in my last semester of college to get my bachelor's degree in English.
Cliff Shackelford:
And it just happened to be a night class on Tuesdays.
Alaina Atnip:
On Tuesday nights. Yeah.
Cliff Shackelford:
And I tried to convince her to stay another year of college and drop that class and take it sometime else, but she's driven.
Alaina Atnip:
I am.
Cliff Shackelford:
She didn't take the bait. Yeah. So, well, good. So you're, you're going over the stage and doing commencement on Friday?
Alaina Atnip:
I sure am, along with Caden. He's also graduating, too.
Cliff Shackelford:
Okay. And Caden's working the phone bank.
Alaina Atnip:
He sure is.
Cliff Shackelford:
And he's got help in there, so if, yeah, if you have calls, uh… Let us know. The number here is 800-55-28502, and until the phone rings, we will, um, well, let's just go right into our guest.
Alaina Atnip:
Sure can.
Cliff Shackelford:
And tonight, we're excited to have Grant Sizemore.
And he is the Director of Invasive Species Programs with the American Bird Conservancy, and Grant is joining us via Zoom from the New Braunfels, Texas area. Good evening, Grant.
Grant Sizemore:
Hi.
Cliff Shackelford:
Thanks for joining us today, and we have a lot of fun stuff to talk about, and Elaine and I are gonna… ask you questions, and I'm gonna start off, uh, we, we always like to hear a biosketch, and instead of me telling everybody who you are, I'd rather you tell us who you are, so go ahead and give us a brief biosketch, you know, all the typical things, where you're born, your hobbies, family life, where you went to school, and all that. So go ahead, Grant.
Grant Sizemore:
Sure. Well, thank you again for having me. So I am originally from Ohio. I was born and raised in the Cincinnati, Ohio area, um, went to school there, did my undergrad at Miami University in Ohio, in Oxford. And then went on and did my master's at University of Florida in Gainesville, where I… Studied wildlife ecology and conservation, did my field work on wading birds in the Greater Everglades ecosystem.
Um, and since that, I've been working as a professional wildlife biologist for a long time now, ever since graduating, not too long. Yeah, so now living in Texas, and uh.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah. Yeah.
Grant Sizemore:
With my little family, wife and two kids. Um, I love to get out birding when I can, doesn't happen as much as I would like with some small kids, but uh… I like to go birding, hiking, fishing, uh, just really enjoy the outdoors every chance I get.
Cliff Shackelford:
Well, you've got certainly some neat birds in your area, and some neat fishing spots, too. So, um, are you fly fishermen?
Grant Sizemore:
I am. Yes, I am.
Cliff Shackelford:
All right. Well, you're in a good spot for that. So yeah, cool. Yeah. And, you know, Texas, we're not known for trout. Our waters aren't cold enough, but the bass will still hit the flight, and so it makes it fun.
Grant Sizemore:
Yeah, well, then the Texas Parks and Wildlife does stock rainbows in the Guadalupe, and so I I go out and. Fish below the dam and all along the river. It's fun.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, there are some places where they'll hold out for a while. They also stock them in my area, but they don't last but a couple days, so they're probably wishing someone would hook them and take them home, because they're gonna just cook in the… you know, what we call warm or cold waters is not really cold enough for them, so… But, uh, anyway, okay, well, thanks for, uh, that about yourself, and, uh, so, Grant, what got you interested in the great outdoors? Was there a particular person or two who inspired you? And also, is there a species that got you hooked on birds?
Grant Sizemore:
You know, I've always been fascinated with nature, the outdoors. I'm not sure there was any one person that got me hooked. It was the combined influence of a whole bunch of different people.
And, you know, I'm also of a generation where we had great programming on Discovery Channel and Animal Planet and stuff, and so I grew up with. Uh, Steve Irwin and Jeff Corwin and all the sorts of, you know, outdoor nature documentaries that existed. I spent a lot of time at the Cincinnati Zoo growing up. We had a membership, and it was a great place to go, and I got to know that zoo really, really well.
Cliff Shackelford:
Hmm.
Grant Sizemore:
I learned a lot about wildlife there. And then, yeah, just took it to the next step through some education, and then professionally. There wasn't a single species that really got me into birds. But when I was 16? I… I took a trip to Africa. I did a, like, a volunteer… fieldwork thing through a company called Earthwatch.
Cliff Shackelford:
Hmm.
Grant Sizemore:
Um, and so I spent 2 weeks in Ghana, where I was just helping out with some field work for a West African hippo reserve that was set to be established. And I went there for the mammals because, you know, that's what I grew up seeing on TV, and, you know, that's what zoos really cater to also. But it was my first time with exposure to mist netting. And so I got to finally see some birds up close. And I didn't actually hold them, the biologist held them, but I got to be right there next to them. And it was a really cool experience to see some of the the diversity up close, and not quite in hand, but very close to in hand. Um, I remember one that really blew me away was a woodpecker, and its tongue was sticking out, and that tongue is just so unique, not like anything else, really.
And I don't know if that's what got me into birds necessarily, um, but it certainly ignited a little spark that there was more to birds to be experienced that I had not experienced before. Um, and then that was fostered in college, in my ornithology class. I was a big fan of that class, learned a lot of species, and was doing field work in a lab also, and so got to really practice it pretty much daily, not just in the visual identification, but you know, also in the the calls.
Cliff Shackelford:
Who is your ornithology professor?
Grant Sizemore:
Dave Russell at Miami University.
Cliff Shackelford:
Okay. And then when you got to Florida, who was the ornithologist there?
Grant Sizemore:
Well, uh, you know, I didn't have… actually, my primary advisor was mostly a mammal guy. I had reached out to him to work on coyotes, but he didn't have funding for that, said he had funding for birds. I was like, well, I like birds, too. Let's let's do something with that.
So there were a couple of other ornithologists, Scott Robinson in the biology program there was… probably the best known ornithologist, at least that I interacted with.
Cliff Shackelford:
All right. You're listening to Bird Calls. I'm Cliff Shackelford and we are joined by Grant Sizemore this evening, and we have a caller Alaina's gonna introduce.
Alaina Atnip:
We sure do. We have Mike from Jefferson Texas on the line. Mike, what can we do for you this evening?
Cliff Shackelford:
And turn your radio off, Mike. I hear back… feedback.
Caller Mike:
Really? That any better?
Cliff Shackelford:
It's a little better. I can hear a little echo.
Caller Mike:
Oh, okay. Um, yeah, I just… I was gonna say, I've caught quite a few, uh, sunfish on a fly rod, so there's certainly some good, good fly fishing around here, too.
Cliff Shackelford:
Mike, this is a bird show, okay? Don't get us distracted.
Caller Mike:
You brought it up.
Cliff Shackelford:
I know, I know, I'm kidding, I'm messing with you. No, go ahead.
Caller Mike:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm messing right back. But yeah, I've been getting Swainson’s Warblers, and I wondered, uh, you know, how long are they here, and just anything you might have to say about those. And, um, also, I was out last night listening for… Listen for Chuck Will's widows and also got cuckoo and Yellow Breasted Chat and barred owl. Just anything you'd like to add on any of those.
Cliff Shackelford:
But no, no whipperwills?
Caller Mike:
I never got… I don't think I've ever gotten a whipper wheel. I'm not familiar with those.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, and this is probably they're done passing through. That's something… you need to go out the last week of March.
Caller Mike:
Oh, really?
Cliff Shackelford:
Into early April, right when the sun goes down, and the trees don't show any green color, and that's when whippoorwills in migration will call. So, they probably all pass through. Now, you mentioned Swainson's warbler, and those stick around in the area, especially in Jefferson, where you live, they're breeding in your area. So, that's something that we'll have for several months, um, to come. You ask how long they're here for, so they're here long enough to raise families and then they get quiet. That doesn't mean they've left yet. Uh, they get harder to hear after, um, say, mid-July. Uh, but they're still there, and then they'll head south.
Caller Mike:
So… I think I got one or two on, like, September 1st or 2nd one time, but I really… would that be more of a… Were those migrants, do you think, or just local birds that somehow got inspired?
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that's a question that we'd need to answer, but I can't do that, but that is a good day to hear them in September. And I don't know if that was one that was maybe from
farther north, it was passing through, and uh, yeah, we'll never know. That's the beauty of birdwatching, I think, is so many questions to ask, and you gotta keep reading, and keep going in the field, and you'll never learn at all, and that's fun. That makes it fun. That means you have to do this for life.
Caller Mike:
Yeah, it really does. Yeah.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah. Yeah. So, and was there Chuck Will's widow question, or just… you're just listing what you had?
Caller Mike:
Uh, yeah, nothing in particular. I didn't know if there's anything you wanted to, you know, any Chuck Will's widows facts that you might have, or… you might want to mention, or…
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah. The sad thing is, is they're declining pretty rapidly. Most of the night jars are, um, and the chuck just… it doesn't do well with, uh…you know, loss of forest habitat, and loss of dark forest habitat. Now, that doesn't mean that they're not… calling in an area where you've got nightlights and such, but they… they're really going to be keyed towards the darker, bigger forests out in the rural areas. And, uh, yeah, and so, oh, you did mention that you had yellow-billed cuckoo and yellow-breasted chat singing at night, and we've… talked about that on the show before, how those are, you know, birds that are not considered nocturnal, um, but they'll… they will sing at night, and same with northern Mockingbird, they'll sing at night as well, so…
Caller Mike:
Yeah.
Cliff Shackelford:
It is interesting.
It begs the question, what's going on? And, you know, one common suggestion is that these are uh, especially with the chat and the, uh, Mockingbird, that these are unmated males that are in hyperdrive trying to find a mate, a girlfriend. So, the cuckoo, I don't know. That's just a strange bird altogether, so… Yeah.
Caller Mike:
Yeah, they're kind of different. I guess the Chuck Wills widows call all night, or… Yeah. They seem to really get going.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yep, they'll call all night, and you know, I've mentioned this on the radio before, if you…if you go camping, and that one is singing above your tent, you'll never go to sleep.
Caller Mike:
Yeah, I thought I remembered you saying that.
Cliff Shackelford:
Because that's from experience, and if there's a Chuck singing way off, and it's just real dim, you can fall asleep. It's very pleasant, but it is not pleasant when the tree is right above your tent because they are super loud. I mean, I think that call carries, I would think, a quarter mile or more.
Caller Mike:
Oh, yeah, at least.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, so he's got a lot of volume and really can scream it out there. Uh, but yeah, I do love Chuck's, I'm not saying I don't like them. I just like him… I think I've said this before, like a train. When there's a train blowing a horn, and it's way off, it's pleasant. If a train is right, if you're right by the tracks and you're staying with a friend, and they live right next to the tracks, and there goes the horn. You're jumping up out of bed. It's just… it's just something that is pleasant in the distance, and not pleasant right up on top of you.
Caller Mike:
Yeah, and another thing, I've been getting them in the pine plantation, which seems a little odd.
Cliff Shackelford:
The chucks?
Caller Mike:
Yeah.
Cliff Shackelford:
Oh, cool.
Caller Mike:
\They don't seem to like the… they seem to like that better for some… I don't know… I wouldn't have expected that, but…
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, we… I don't know that we really know what they're eating, um, what kind of moths, what are the moths tied to. Um, are they maybe going out into these open areas, the moths, to be pollinators? I mean, maybe they're headed to these openings where there's a lot of forbs that are blooming. I don't know, but I can see, you know, some residual trees and a clear cut being a good song perch for a Chuck Will's widow.
Caller Mike:
This is more, um, you know, it's… Oh, maybe 10, maybe it was cut 10 years ago, so pretty decent-sized pines, it seems like. There's probably some openings as well, though, but I would have expected them to be more in the, I guess, deciduous or regular forest, but for some reason, they seem to like that.
Cliff Shackelford:
I'm guessing something does, but…
Yeah, I don't… I don't know, I've not heard one in a… I call that a regenerating pine plantation, it sounds like, and I don't think I've heard one in there, but…
Caller Mike:
Really?
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, that's cool. Well, good. Alright, Mike, well, anything else we can do for you tonight?
Caller Mike:
Oh, that's… that's good, thank you.
Cliff Shackelford:
Okay, well, thanks for the call, Mike.
Caller Mike:
Thank you. Good talking to you.
Cliff Shackelford:
Thanks, thank you.
Alaina Atnip:
Oh, the…
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, you're number three.
Alaina Atnip:
I got distracted by our caller and thinking about Chuck's and what possibly would lead a bird to be called a chuck. Yeah. Um, but my next question is for our guest Grant. Um, you're… you work for the American Bird Conservancy, so describe the nonprofit for us, and for those who don't, or who aren't aware of what it is, and then also talk about your title, the Director of Invasive Species Programs, and some specific projects you and your colleagues are currently working on.
Grant Sizemore:
Oh, thanks. Yeah. For what it's worth. I've had sort of similar experience with whippoorwills.
Boy, when they get right next to you, it is tough to sleep. So American Bird Conservancy is a 501c3 conservation nonprofit dedicated to the conservation of native birds and their habitats throughout the Americas. So throughout the whole Western Hemisphere. We are really doing everything we can to address bird declines. It was mentioned already that some of those birds that were identified are declining. Unfortunately, lots of birds are declining. We will talk more about that maybe later.
But we are on the front lines doing everything for the conservation of birds. We are a very nimble and dedicated organization that really does some great work. You know, some of the.
the projects that our organization works on are habitat conservation, preservation, establishing key reserves for critically endangered species throughout the Western Hemisphere. So we work not just in the breeding grounds.
In the US and Canada, but also in the wintering grounds, because it's sort of that full life cycle conservation. So we protect habitats, we restore them. We, you know, related to my work with invasive species. We do a lot of invasive species removal.
So habitat restoration to restore native species that might be more beneficial, certainly are more beneficial for birds and a variety of other wildlife. We're also managing resources not just for the benefit of birds, but also in ways that benefit people as well.
So we have a lot of foresters on staff, people that help with timber production. We're working with ranchers and in grassland habitats to restore grasslands for a variety of species like bobwhite quail, but also that has, you know, benefits for cattle production.
Also, some other programs that we do “Birds, Not Mosquitoes” is a really cool one. Again, this is another invasive species related project. So this is a Hawaii focus project. It's in Hawaiian Eola Namanu Nahele.
It's it uses a really cool technique called incompatible insect technique, or IIT to interrupt the reproduction of a mosquito in Hawaii, of a non-native mosquito. Mosquitoes were introduced by people to Hawaii. They're not supposed to be there, and they carry a disease called avian malaria, which is.
Unfortunately fatal for many Hawaiian birds, which are already suffering from really steep declines. But this avian malaria has the potential to really wipe out species. So our organization is working in partnership with a bunch of other organizations.
To use this IIT technique to actually introduce male mosquitoes that are incompatible with the females, and so males won't bite people, and they will reproduce with the females.
But they have a bacterium in it, something called Wolbachia, that is incompatible. It's sort of like two puzzle pieces. They have to be the same, they have to line up in order to reproduce. But if you give them a Wolbachia that doesn't line up, then they can't reproduce. They will mate, but then they don't have fertile eggs.
So, that's something we're working on to reduce the mosquito population there and reduce the impacts of that disease, avian malaria, especially on Hawaiian forest birds, things like Akikiki, or, uh, Akohekohe, or, Kiwikiu, or Palila, or Iiwi, all these really great honeycreepers. So other things we have Bird City Network is a great program that ABC helps to operate. It's a partnership with other conservation organizations. It provides resources for communities, communities that might want to adopt a bird city designation.
And so our organization, through the Bird City Network, provides guidance on new and existing programs to help them meet those certifications and really connect the communities across the hemisphere to enact bird conservation outcomes in their communities. So there's a snippet of what ABC does. It's a cool organization, gets a lot done. I'd recommend you check it out if you're into bird conservation or birds generally.
Cliff Shackelford:
All right. And, you know, we're going to talk about… One that you work in a lot of detail on, and that's the cats indoors. But before we do, I thought it'd be good to talk about or define some words that we're already hearing and we probably hear a lot.
Uh, so that way we're really clear, and so if you could take a moment, Grant, and define the words invasive.
And non-native and native, I think that might help, because I want to make sure the listeners are all on the same page when we're talking about what is invasive and what is native and what is non-native.
Grant Sizemore:
Yeah, thanks. I try not to use too much jargon. I know I already use native and non-native. So native just refers to a species that belongs in an area. It it occurs there naturally has been there likely for thousands, millions of years, potentially. Non-native means a species that is not from a given area, but has been introduced there, most often by people. And invasive is a special designation. It actually has a policy aspect.
Um, it was defined specifically in Executive Order 13112 in, I think, 1999, and it states a non-native species whose introduction does or is likely to cause harm, economic harm, or environmental harm, or harm to human health.
And so that's a species that's in the wrong area and causes problems as a result.
Cliff Shackelford:
All right. So… Those are good to have defined. Thank you. And so let's jump into cats. You know, you're a cat owner, I'm a cat owner. Alaina’s a cat owner. But, you know, why are cats best when living indoors? And have you seen regional differences in human attitudes on this topic?
Grant Sizemore:
Yeah. So I mean, the reason that cats belong indoors is because it's it's a win-win-win. It's safer for birds and other wildlife. It's safer for people and communities, and it's also safer for cats. So, you know, regarding the the wildlife aspect, the bird conservation aspect.
You know, cats are great, lovable pets. Like you said, I've got a pet cat myself. I've had cats most of my life. But when they are roaming around in the environment, they operate as an introduced predator, a non-native predator and an invasive predator. And they can have tremendous impacts in local ecosystems. So cats in the United States are estimated to kill 2.4 billion birds every single year. 2.4 billion with a B. That's incredible. It's… it makes cats the single largest direct human-caused source of bird mortality in both the United States and Canada. In Canada, it's about 200 million birds killed per year by cats.
I mean, cats are. They're just very effective, efficient predators, and they're also not subject in large part to the normal predator prey dynamics that we might see in ecosystems, because we provide them reliable, healthy food, water, shelter access to veterinary care, I mean, things that native wild predators just simply don't have access to. And so cats can also exist in densities that are far higher than our native predators, which means that they end up having one study found 2 to 10 times greater impacts locally in the environment as a result of their predation on wildlife than other similarly sized native predators. They are also a leading cause of intake at wildlife rehab facilities, and you know, cats are… kind of unique in that they have a huge amount of bacteria in their mouth, so even just an interaction really between a cat and wildlife is often fatal. Research that looked at wildlife rehab intakes found that 70%, uh, roughly of birds that were brought into wildlife rehab facilities ended up dying even after they were provided, you know, top of the line veterinary care, and that's just for a small subset of those animals that are actually identified by a person, able to take to a
wildlife rehab facility. Most of the animals that are attacked by a cat don't have that …that opportunity.
So all of this adds up over time in the environment. And this is not unique to the United States. I mentioned Canada already. There are other countries that have looked at this. Australia, for example, New Zealand also has a big problem with cats. China has estimated total cat-caused bird mortality, all of them estimate hundreds of millions to billions of birds killed every single year in those countries.
Cliff Shackelford:
Hmm.
Grant Sizemore:
And cats are known to have contributed to the extinction of 63 species globally. So, I mean, this is …this is a serious matter, and extinction is, for now, forever. You know, recently there was a case of 168 wedge-tailed shearwaters on the island of Kauai, one of the Hawaiian Islands that were killed as a result of cats. So these are birds that have come back, they're seabirds that come back, they were burrowing in their nests, you know, trying to get ready for breeding. Cats came in, they're on the ground, they wiped them out. 168 wedgetail shearwaters killed. So there is an opportunity for what some scientists have called hyper predation by cats, just really huge disproportionate impacts in the environment. And that's not to mention disease, which I'll actually talk more about that when I… you know, safer for communities, safer for people. So we don't think of cats as a human health risk.
But the science, the evidence really indicates that they are. Cats are the top carrier of rabies among domestic animals in the United States. They've outpaced dogs since the 1980s. It's on average in the in the US about 4 to 1 for rabid domestic cats for every 1 rabid dog.
So old yellers out. It's old Tigger now with regard to cats. And that's because cats, unlike dogs, are out running around in the environment frequently. They have the chance to interact with rabies vector species like raccoons or foxes or skunks or whatever.
And then they can bring that back. And so there's a disproportionate likelihood of them actually exposing people to the disease. So wildlife are far more likely to test positive for rabies, but cats are more likely to expose a person to the disease.
And we don't want that. Rabies is fatal. Once symptoms arise you're about 99.9% sure that you're gonna die. So you don't want that.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah.
Grant Sizemore:
Toxo, toxoplasmosis is another disease that cats carry. And there's a whole wide range of zoonotic diseases that cats can carry and transmit. And, you know, cats that roam outside are 3 to 5 times more likely to be infected with zoonotic diseases than their indoor counterparts.
There was a study that just got released. But Toxo is one that relies on felines to complete its life cycle. It can only sexually reproduce in the gut of a feline. So once it does, it then is excreted in cat feces on the order of up to hundreds of millions of little oocysts. So essentially infectious eggs, and those eggs can remain infectious for months to years in the environment, whether that's terrestrial, freshwater, or marine environments.
So this is the reason that doctors say don't change cat litter if you're pregnant. But for cats that are running around outside the whole environment is a litter box. So whether it's your sand pit, you know your… your garden, whatever. If it's open and there are cats running around there's a pretty good chance they're pooping in it.
It could be infected with Toxo, so you want to be careful with that. And then, of course, lastly, it's better for the cats. You know, there's less exposure to a variety of threats when they're kept indoors. Coyotes, vehicle collisions, being attacked by dogs, other pet cats that are out there, poisons, they live longer, healthier lives. They're perfectly happy indoors. They don't need to roam outside in order to live a long, happy life. And if you want to give your cat some time outdoors, there are plenty of safe alternatives to do that, like a catio, for example, an enclosed cat patio is one of those options. And this is all supported by the AVMA, the American Veterinary Medical Association, which says for all of these reasons for the health and welfare of cats, but also the health of the environment and human communities it's best to keep cats safely indoors.
Cliff Shackelford:
And let's… Let's really clarify or remind… listeners that we are all pro cats on this show. We're basically saying the things that promote people bringing their cats inside. If you love your cat, bring them inside. If you love birds, bring your cat inside and keep it inside. And as you mentioned, Grant, they'll live a longer, healthier life without getting, like you said, without attacks from other cats, or… dogs are getting run over, so if you love your cat, bring it inside, and those of us that love birds know that we shouldn't let our cats run free. Um, so we're not cat haters, we're cat lovers, we're at a different level where maybe, you know, you love your cat more when you're taking that kind of care of it, so…I just want to make sure that's clear.
Alaina Atnip:
I think that definitely we've definitely talked about a lot of reasons why bringing your cat inside would be, you know, beneficial, but what would you say specifically to people? Um, of, like, direct reasons to cat owners why they should bring their cat inside. Obviously, like, living a long and happy life, you want your cat to be… to be old and fat and… and, you know, one day, uh, you'll lose it, but hopefully that'll be longer whenever you bring it inside, so to cat owners, what do you say to tell them to bring it inside?
Grant Sizemore:
Yeah, that's a good question. There are. I realize I didn't answer it fully. Your last question. There are regional differences. And so it it really depends on the perspective of the person you're talking to. They might be motivated by the harms to wildlife. They might be motivated by the nuisances they experience in their community. You know, a lot of people don't want to have cats running on their property and spraying, you know, cat pee doesn't smell good or pooping in their garden or whatever. And then they also don't want to inflict that upon their neighbors.
There are plenty of reasons that individuals might want to make that that personal choice to keep their cats indoors. I try to talk about it from whatever that perspective is for them, whether it be human health or wildlife conservation. But one thing we can generally all agree on as cat owners is the health and welfare of the cats, and so I let people know it's, you know, you don't have to choose between cats and birds. You can choose both.
Um, we really aren't talking about anything revolutionary here, it's just treating cats more like we treat dogs. We already have done this with dogs. Dogs used to run wild in our streets, neighborhoods, parks, and… eventually we decided, hey, that's really not a great idea. It turns out there's a lot of science that shows it's not a great idea for cats also for all of the impacts that cats have, but also for the impacts to cats themselves. And so we can make a choice to give a cat outdoor time if that's something that's important to you. They don't need it. But if you see that as a valuable component of their enrichment, you can give them safe outdoor time through, I mentioned catios, an enclosed cat patio could be a screened-in porch, or it can be something you build out of chicken wire, or it can be incredibly fancy. I mean, there are some catios that are, you know, multiple stories, and people probably spend tens of thousands of dollars on these things.
Cliff Shackelford:
Mm-hmm.
Grant Sizemore:
You can walk it on a leash. That seems to be increasing in popularity. There are backpacks with like little bubbles on them that the cat can, you know, ride around wherever you go, whether it's the subway, the bus, or, you know, just taking a walk all of these things are basically creating an opportunity for a cat to get outside, but a barrier between cats and the environment. So just not letting that cat run at large, run wild in the community. That's really all we're talking about.
Cliff Shackelford:
Hmm. You're listening to Bird Calls. I'm Cliff Shackelford and Elena Atnip and I are joined with Grant Sizemore this evening. He's joining us via Zoom from New Braunfels, Texas, which is in between Austin and San Antonio.
If you have a question, you can call us at 800-552-8502. A question about birds, or if you'd like to ask Grant a specific question about cats and why we love them so much, feel free to call 800-552-8502.
Um, let's jump into some other topics related to cats and dogs, Grant. How important is spaying and neutering your pet? And then, what's the efficacy of trap-neuter-return programs for cats?
Grant Sizemore:
Yeah. So I mean, sterilizing your…your pet cat or dog, whatever it might be, is viewed as an important component of responsible ownership unless you intentionally want to breed that animal. And there are, of course, ways you can breed them responsibly. But negligent breeding of cats and dogs, too, but of cats in this case is really a problem. We have an overabundance, really, a population crisis with cats, we have too many cats for the number of homes that want them. And that's a problem not just for the cats, not just for animal control, trying to get a handle on all this and keep cats off the streets. But also, of course, for our birds and other wildlife.
You mentioned one program, trap, neuter, return. It's also known as trap, neuter, release or trap, neuter, reabandon, depending on who you talk to goes by the acronym TNR. It's a program that is sold as a way to humanely and reliably reduce cat populations. Unfortunately, the science shows overwhelmingly that it does not do that.
And what I think we've seen shift in the studies and the marketing of TNR over the years here recently is that they're no longer really saying it's going to reduce cat populations, but it will keep the cat population steady and reduce euthanasia.
Grant Sizemore:
opportunities for cats, and I understand that nobody wants to euthanize a cat or dog or any other animal.
Cliff Shackelford:
Mm-hmm.
Grant Sizemore:
But TNR simply doesn't work for the needs of the community. And while it might have a live outcome for an individual cat, that live outcome results in the predictable and unnecessary deaths of our native birds, a variety of other wildlife, and isn't humane for the cat either. The reason it's sometimes called reabandonment rather than return or release is because you are essentially dumping that cat back out onto the street once you had it in your possession. And for females they've just undergone serious surgery. So these cats get reabandoned where they live not great lives, they're subject to a variety of harms in the environment, and, you know, TNR promoters will say, “Oh, well, cat populations reduce through natural attrition,” but they don't clarify that that natural attrition means, well, it got scratched and got an infection and died from sepsis, or it was pancaked by a truck that went by, or it ingested some rat poison and died, um, you know, it's not a great way to live, and certainly not great way to die. So the evidence, like I said, strongly supports the idea that TNR does not work to reduce cat populations.
Removal is really the key, and removal could take a variety of different forms. It can be adoption, it can be placement in cat sanctuaries, or animal shelters, or it could be euthanasia, but reabandoning, releasing, returning, dumping those cats back into the environment certainly doesn't help.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, so let's talk about for non-feline pets, what are some consideration that owners can make, in the name of bird conservation, because on this show, for example, we've talked about the stress that unleashed dogs running on the beach can have on migrating and nesting shorebirds that are on the beach. They might have eggs, they might be on eggs, so… What, uh, since you're the Director of Invasive Species Programs, let's hear what you have to say for the non-cat owner.
Grant Sizemore:
Yeah. So dogs like cats can be predators …are predators by instinct and can have big impacts on birds and other wildlife in the environment. And so we've done a really good job in most communities of requiring leashes for dogs, and we have designated areas, dog parks, where they can be off-leash. That doesn't mean we have 100% compliance. Anybody who goes to the beach, you know, birders watching shorebirds nesting on the beach often get frustrated by dog owners who, um, through, uh, you know, oh, ignorance, they just don't know that shorebirds are nesting, or apathy, they don't care, are letting their dogs run around into restricted areas that hopefully are taped off by the Natural Resource Agency or American Bird Conservancy does some of this.
But, you know, when a dog's going to chase a frisbee or a tennis ball that creates a disturbance that disrupts the nesting behavior and has potential impacts for the reproduction, the successful reproduction for a variety of different species. So really, for any pet animal the best, most responsible way to manage that pet for the pet's health, for the community, is to just keep it under your control, your supervision, not let it run amok.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, and we've talked on this radio show before about, you know, non-cat, non-pet things that you should do if you have an aquarium or a terrarium, and you get tired of it, you don't like the stuff that's in there, and you dump it, that's a big no-no.
Grant Sizemore:
That's right.
Cliff Shackelford:
So don't dump your fish or your exotic plants into our waterways, don't let the snakes loose. I mean, that's why we're… Florida's in such a problem with…with non-native reptiles. Um, and, you know, we don't condone releasing caged birds like waterfowl in public ponds, scaly-breasted Munias at ceremonial events, and you know, even quail in the name of reintroductions, Bob White, because what we found is that those Bob White that are cage-reared have about a 2-3 week lifespan. They just aren't raised to be wary of all the threats and predators out there, so… so just don't… don't let things out of their cage is a… that's a big no-no, and we've talked about that on the show before. So we have a caller.
Alaina Atnip:
We do! We have Don from Henderson, Texas.
Cliff Shackelford:
Don, what can we do for you this evening?
Caller Don:
What would you say to a well-meaning citizens that have a heart for cats? That feed the stray cats, whether it be in their backyard, front yard, or in a public parking lot or something like that. Is that helping… hurting, or doing what to our environment and to the cat population?
Grant Sizemore:
Thanks for the question, Don. It's probably hurting. I know there are many compassionate people who who go out of their way to provide love and care for these what they see as just these homeless animals who are homeless through no fault of their own. I get that. But the feeding of these cats concentrates them, it concentrates their impacts in local areas. It does not eliminate the predatory instinct that cats have. This is an instinct that is not based on hunger.
And so, you know, if you've ever had a cat, uh, like for my cat, we play with a feather toy or a laser pointer or something like that. You know, that is… an instinctive prey drive. We call it play. It's enrichment. It's absolutely great for that individual cat. And when it's a feather toy or a laser pointer or whatever, you know, that's fine. That's safe, uh, safe behavior. But that cat is engaging in a predatory response, you know, it grasps the feather toy, for example, and its front paw as it kicks with its back claws, it will bite.
The cat has no intention of eating that… that feather toy, but that same sort of behavior, when it's taken outside, is lethal for our native birds and other wildlife. So feeding these cats without trapping and removing them is going to be doing a lot of harm by feeding, you're actually increasing the carrying capacity. There's another jargon word for us in that local environment. So the carrying capacity is just the number of animals that can exist in that environment, the number of animals that the habitat can maintain.
And so by constantly adding more food, you're allowing for more and more and more and more cats to exist in that area, potentially enabling their reproduction because, of course, if those cats aren't sterilized, that food resource actually serves as a, you know, a, well, resource for them to reproduce successfully. So the best thing we can do for these cats is trap them, remove them, and give them an opportunity for a loving, lifelong home.
Cliff Shackelford:
Don, what do you think?
Caller Don:
Good advice, I like it.
Cliff Shackelford:
Great. Thanks for the call, Don.
Caller Don:
You bet.
Cliff Shackelford:
You're listening to Bird Calls. We're joined with by Grant, Grant Sizemore here and we just have a few minutes left. And if you'd like to ask a question, the number here is 800-552-8502. Again, 800-552-8502.
And until we get any calls, we have a few more questions. So, Grant, we've discussed on this radio show that many species of birds on our planet are declining rapidly, and your organization, ABC, is working hard in the world of bird conservation. Thank you for that.
Why do we need more birds? I mean, that's a question people are always asking. I see birds everywhere, why do we need more of them? And then, how can people benefit from having more birds around them? And then the last part of the question is, how can we convince elected officials at all levels of government that bird declines are real, and that we should do something about them, and why?
Grant Sizemore:
All right. That's a good long question. So help me out if I don't get to everything. So to get to your 1st point. Yes, birds are in decline, rapid precipitous decline. So there was a study published in 2019 by American Bird Conservancy and a coalition of conservation organizations that looked at the breeding bird survey data over the last 50 years. And what they found is there's been about 3 billion in bird decline in that 50 years, so a net loss of about 3 billion birds over half a century, and for many birds, it's really, really precipitous declines. Grassland species, for example, are in steep decline. Really, all birds except wetland species are not doing well at all. Um, so, I mean, why does it matter? I know people say, well, I just saw a bird. I saw a bird over there, I saw a bird over there, who cares?
And I'm, you know, I might have agreed with them a long time ago. Um… until you start to be able to identify the different species of birds. Every bird is the same. Oh, well, you might know that's a hawk or an eagle or something, and you might know that. That's probably a sparrow or something, but…until you can start identifying the individual species and picking up on their individual behaviors and the patterns, you know, by migration was talked about with one of the earlier callers, you really don't… have a full understanding of the diversity of life, of bird life, and…and you don't see the trends or the differences in populations.
So, you know, once you start identifying, oh, well, that's an American robin, that's a northern mockingbird, that's a Northern Cardinal. Then you can start to differentiate between the different birds, and you start to notice, oh, well, I haven't been seeing as many black chin hummingbirds this year as I normally do, or…hmm, it's taking a lot longer for the painted buntings to come back. You start to understand the ins and outs of birds, and can understand that, um… It's not just a “bird is a bird is a bird.” So, but why do birds matter? You know, actually, there was a book published with that very title, maybe, like, 6 or 7 years ago, um, by, uh, gosh, I can't remember his name, a Turkish author. Um, but a well-known, uh, bird biologist, and he laid out a bunch of different things that we take interest in with regard to birds, you know, things we actually benefit from, things we'd call ecosystem services. So the services that birds provide to us that we can't easily replicate, but yet we still benefit from.
So there are things like, you know, historically navigation. People would look at where birds are and identify islands, or there's nutrient cycling. So especially in island ecosystems where birds are going out into the sea for their nightly foraging, and they're picking up fish or squid or whatever, they're returning to their roosts or their burrows on the islands, and they are pooping. Pooping everywhere. And that guano is a great source of nutrients. It actually helps build up, you know, these island ecosystems and allows for other plants and animals to thrive. Pollination, dispersal of seeds. I mean, these are incredibly critical services that they provide. They also provide services to other species, so they can operate as a keystone species, one that is really necessary for the functioning of an ecosystem like woodpeckers are really good at developing cavities in in certain trees. And so then other species can come in and take advantage of those…of those cavities. They can't build the cavities themselves, but they take advantage of them and require them for you know, place to raise their young, for example.
So, you know, I think one of the best things you can do to help advocate for, for birds, for bird conservation and appropriate policies is take someone birding, help them learn the species, not just, you know, start small “there is a chickadee,” or whatever, but then build up over time, and… Help them also not just visually ID the birds but also be able to pick out some of the calls.
And at least what I found was it opened up a whole new world to me. I mean, when I started taking ornithology in undergrad and learning calls, which was part of what we had to do, we had to learn, you know, identification both by sight and sound.
I found that my walks around campus suddenly were an exploration of nature.
Cliff Shackelford:
Cool.
Grant Sizemore:
Um, yeah, you know, I'd be hearing, oh, there's a Carolina chickadee over there, or oh, there's a white-breasted nuthatch, or American Robin singing over there, you know, whatever. Suddenly, you're birding while just getting to wherever you need to go. So I think that's a great way to introduce people to birds, to bird conservation. And, you know, protecting birds, conserving birds doesn't just benefit the birds themselves. There are sweeping benefits to a wide range of other species, also. So, if we can protect the birds, we can protect a whole bunch of other things, and unfortunately birds are not doing well, and that is indicative of some major stressors in our environment. You know, the old, the dodges, the canary in the coal mine, and unfortunately, we've got a lot of canaries that are no longer chirping right now.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah. Good answer. Yeah.
Alaina Atnip:
And that actually brings us to our next question for Grant. As a bird watcher, what's your favorite site or region to go birding? And do you have a favorite species or group of birds that you look for? I know that you said that you don't have much time anymore to go birding, but…but what are the ones when you think, oh yeah, birdwatching, that you feel real passionate about?
Grant Sizemore:
The honest answer is wherever I am. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at my back window right now watching some painted buntings, and you know I'm birding while we speak. Wherever I am. That's where I like to bird. But there are a few places in the world that I've really enjoyed that are kind of special. And I think one of those that I'll mention is McGee Marsh in Northwest Ohio. The Black Swamp Bird Observatory hosts an event like a two-week event every year in early May called the Biggest Week in Birding. It's a phenomenal event.
You know, Texas already has great birding, but if you happen to find yourself in Northern Ohio at that time, I highly recommend you go. There's a boardwalk through the marsh, and it is incredible what diversity of species you can see right up close. I mean, from a few feet away, you don't need to bring a huge lens to get great photos, you can use your cell phone and get great photos of a huge diversity of birds. It's really, really incredible.
Cliff Chackelford:
Wow. Neat. And then you're looking at all birds. You don't have a favorite you like to claim?
Grant Sizemore:
I did my fieldwork in grad school on wading birds. So great egrets and little blue herons in particular. So I'm maybe particularly fond of the… the wading birds.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, good ones, good ones. Well, we're running out of time, but if listeners want to make a difference with bird conservation by learning more from your organization, the American Bird Conservancy, including how to become a member, what's your website address?
Grant Sizemore:
Yep, please go to abcbirds.org. So that's abcbirds.org. If you want to go to the cats page, it's abcbirds.org slash cats.
Cliff Shackelford:
And I, you know, I should have mentioned this earlier, you were talking about the Cincinnati Zoo. Do you know, uh, what's… what they're really famous for regarding an extinct species?
Grant Sizemore:
Sumatran rhino is one of the things they're working to save from extinction. They're known for passenger pigeon. What's her name? Starts with an M.
Cliff Shackelford:
Martha.
Grant Sizemore:
That's right. They have a whole, like, mausoleum set up for her.
Cliff Shackelford:
Mm-hmm. Martha. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, the last known passenger pigeon died in the Cincinnati Zoo in 1914. Wow. So that's cool that you mentioned that zoo, because that brought that up, and I should have mentioned it earlier, but I didn't.
Grant Sizemore:
Yeah.
Cliff Shackelford:
Alright, well, Grant, thanks so much. We learned a lot, didn't we, Alaina?
Alaina Atnip:
Oh, yeah, we did, about cats and birds.
Cliff Shackelford:
Yeah, and we love them all. So, we have to run, and we really appreciate it, Grant, so that concludes this evening's show, which is our 129th episode.
You've been listening to Bird Calls with me, Cliff Shackelford, resident ornithologist here at Red River Radio Studio, and our guest via Zoom has been Grant Sizemore with the American Bird Conservancy. Thanks, Grant!
This show has been made possible in part by the Community Foundation of North Louisiana and Willis-Knighton Health. Tonight's episode was assisted by Alaina Atnip, and there were volunteers operating the phone bank, Max and Caden.
This show will be available soon as a podcast on our website at redriverradio.org, as well as from the National NPR app. If you have a photo or a sound clip of a bird that you'd like me to identify, you can send an email to redriveradiomail@gmail.com. Again, redriverradiomail@gmail.com.
Be sure to join us for the next episode of Bird Calls next month at 6 p.m. On Tuesday, June the 9th. Do it for the birds.
