LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Russian, Ukrainian and American officials meet in Switzerland tomorrow for another round of negotiations focused on ending the war in Ukraine. The talks come as the Russian full-scale invasion nears the four-year mark. In a few minutes, we hear from former ambassador Kurt Volker about what's next for the U.S. relationship with Europe, but we start with tomorrow's talks.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
NPR's Charles Maynes has been covering it all. He's on the line from Moscow. Hey there, Charles.
CHARLES MAYNES, BYLINE: Morning.
INSKEEP: Is there anything about these talks that would suggest they would turn out any differently than all the other talks?
MAYNES: Well, you know, President Trump's preferred negotiators for seemingly everything these days - that's White House envoy Steve Witkoff and Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner - they're representing the U.S., and they've been rather upbeat about the prospect for a deal.
INSKEEP: OK.
MAYNES: But in remarks at the Munich Security Conference over the weekend, Secretary of State Marco Rubio was far more cautious, particularly when it came to Russia.
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MARCO RUBIO: The answer is we don't know. We don't know if the Russians are serious about ending the war - they say they are - and under what terms they were willing to do it, and whether we can find terms that are acceptable to Ukraine upon that Russia will always agree to. But we're going to continue to test it.
INSKEEP: Testing what the Russian position is. Is it clear to you what the Russian position is as you listen to people there in Moscow?
MAYNES: Well, the Kremlin's line here is it prefers diplomacy to conflict, but that Russian victory is also inevitable. So give us what we want, or we'll take it by force. But I think we have to be clear that this is also part of the Russian strategy and its negotiations with the White House to try and convince the U.S. that Ukraine's cause is hopeless. Moreover, the Kremlin is suggesting that once this war is settled, the U.S. and Russia can get back to business with massive investment opportunities. And White House negotiator Steve Witkoff, in particular, has made clear he sees business and profits as key to bridging differences between a post-war Russia and Ukraine.
INSKEEP: Oh, that's really interesting. So the Russians are saying, if you just go along with us, there's money to be made. The Americans are interested in making the money. But they still don't even have a deal. So what are the key hang-ups here?
MAYNES: Yeah. U.S. efforts have really bogged down on the issue of territorial concessions and security agreements. Russia is demanding Ukraine cede territory, including parts claimed but not occupied by Russian forces. Ukraine argues, why should we give up territory that Russia has been unable to take in four years? Or if, for some reason, they were to agree to that, then they certainly want ironclad security guarantees from the West and from the U.S. in particular, some assurance that Russia simply won't come back and attack again. But speaking to Munich over the weekend, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy made it clear he's under pressure from the White House to sign onto a deal.
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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: The Americans often return to the topic of concessions. And too often those concessions are discussed in the context only of Ukraine, not Russia.
INSKEEP: OK. So that's Zelensky's view of this, that only he is being forced to concede and still not getting to a deal. I want to ask about another bit of news on this. European nations had an announcement over the weekend about Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader. What did you hear?
MAYNES: Yeah. Today marks two years to the day, in fact, since Navalny died in a remote prison in Russia's Arctic. Now several European countries, including the U.K., France and Germany, say analyses of Navalny's remains that were smuggled out of Russia conclusively confirmed the presence of epibatidine. This is a toxin found in poisonous dart frogs in South America. They're not native to Russia. The U.S. says it doesn't dispute those findings. Russian officials, however, continue to say Navalny died from natural causes. But these European findings would appear to support what Navalny's family and his supporters have certainly always maintained - that he was murdered.
INSKEEP: NPR's Charles Maynes is in Moscow. Thanks, as always, for your insights. Really appreciate it.
MAYNES: Thank you, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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