LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: France, the U.K. and other U.S. allies recognized a Palestinian state this week, and President Trump didn't like it. He denounced the decisions in his address to the United Nations General Assembly.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We can't forget October 7, can we? Now, as if to encourage continued conflict, some of this body is seeking to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state.
FADEL: U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres gave the opposite message - that this may revive the two-state solution.
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ANTONIO GUTERRES: Statehood for the Palestinians is a right, not a reward.
FADEL: To dig deeper, I reached Anwar Gargash, who was in New York for the assembly. He's the diplomatic adviser to the president of the United Arab Emirates, a key U.S. ally in the Gulf. And I started with the Abraham Accords, which were brokered by Trump in his first term to establish diplomatic ties between Israel and several Arab nations, including the UAE. I asked if the accords could collapse, given the daily horrors in Gaza and a breakdown in ceasefire talks.
ANWAR GARGASH: I have to say that the Abraham Accord is under strain, under strain because of the war in Gaza, under strain also because of threats of annexation, etc. But it remains really one of the success stories in the region, one of the success stories of the Trump administration. And I am sure also, you know, once we do actually arrive at a ceasefire in Gaza - which we've all been, you know, working on - that this will actually take some of the strain away.
FADEL: In your view, is the U.S. at all willing to use its economic and military leverage to pressure the Israeli government?
GARGASH: Well, I think everybody agrees that Washington's role is critical. As we work with the Americans, I think there is more and more realization that we should actually arrive at a ceasefire.
FADEL: But I guess what I'm - it's been almost two years. Next month, it will be two years.
GARGASH: Yes, and very frustrating and very bloody.
FADEL: And so I guess what I'm asking is, what gives you any hope that it will be any different? It feels further than ever.
GARGASH: Well, I think we have to work with a can-do attitude, but we also don't want to go to the sort of situation that existed before the war.
FADEL: As in?
GARGASH: Meaning, basically, a containment of the aspirations of the Palestinians for a state. We cannot continue with old containment policies. We all have to work not only at a ceasefire but also using these monumental events in the region to create new opportunity. And that, I think, is what we are trying to do with friends and others - and, of course, Washington.
FADEL: Right. And we saw the recognition of a Palestinian state...
GARGASH: Yeah.
FADEL: ...From France and others this week. But the realities on the ground right now, while we're speaking, Hamas has put out a poster of all the remaining hostages in Gaza, basically saying, say goodbye to them, so that their lives are in immediate and serious danger. Starvation, famine in Gaza, dozens of Palestinians being killed each day, each week. What can the UAE do to put pressure on Israel? I mean, in the past, the UAE has threatened to downgrade relations.
GARGASH: We've been doing many things on that. For example, about 42, 43% of all the humanitarian support that's gone to Gaza has originated from the UAE. But again, on recognition, I think the recognition that we are seeing today of the Palestinian state is extremely important. I mean, it keeps alive the two-state solution as the only viable solution today. It undermines any legitimacy of the continuation of the occupation. And I think it turns around the logic, Leila, because in the beginning the logic was negotiations leading to recognition. Right now, I think we're saying recognition and from recognition, we will go through negotiations. These are realities. I disagree with people who say that recognition does not change anything.
FADEL: Is there a red line for the UAE? You talked about the strain on the Abraham Accords, but also how important it is to keep them alive. But is there a red line for the UAE where you will reconsider this deal?
GARGASH: Well, we've already stated that annexation is a no-go area for us.
FADEL: Israel is currently threatening that as a result of the recognition.
GARGASH: Israel is currently threatening that. You know, the Abrahamic Accords was based basically on a first threat of annexation at that time. And I think the Abraham Accords basically thwarted that annexation.
FADEL: The worst humanitarian crisis on the planet right now, as we speak about human suffering, is in Sudan. And so I do feel that I have to ask you why the UAE is supporting the Rapid Support Forces in Sudan, when the U.S., the U.N. and others say they're committing a genocide - a second genocide in Darfur.
GARGASH: On Sudan, I think the UAE position is very clear - an immediate ceasefire to the war in Sudan, unhindered humanitarian support in Sudan. And we believe Sudan's future is not a military rule. Sudan's future is in a civilian approach. And I think for these reasons, we've been the favorite sort of bashing target for many of these, you know, Sudanese, let's say, pseudo-military and pseudo-Islamists who are trying to sort of explain their own continuation of war that is not winnable, and the cost of it is too high.
FADEL: I know you called it UAE bashing, but there is a growing body of evidence that documents this. In April, a U.N. expert report found that the UAE is secretly providing weapons to armed militias in Sudan and neighboring Chad. An Amnesty International report in May found the same thing that the RSF is using advanced Chinese weaponry that's coming through the UAE, and that they're flouting the U.N. arms embargo. So you're saying none of this is true?
GARGASH: Leila, there are also other reports. I mean, No. 1, you know, the whole claim of the Sudanese military and the International Court of Justice just fell flat on its face. The other thing, the U.N. independent report of experts on Sudan did not come to the same conclusions. So definitely, in a situation like this, where you are actually seeing weapons from Iran and other countries also coming to support Sudanese military, you'll get a lot of these conflicting reports.
FADEL: And two conflicts that are both a situation where people are starving to death.
GARGASH: Yes.
FADEL: Anwar Gargash is a former foreign minister and currently serving as the diplomatic adviser to the president of the UAE. Thank you so much for your time and your insights. We appreciate it.
GARGASH: Thank you, Leila.
(SOUNDBITE OF AHMED MALEK AND NATUREBOY FLAKO'S "TAPE 27 TRACK 5") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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